Curse

Skye Marin · Mar 09, 2007, 06:27 AM // 06:27

With the recent change to make all the other cap points give a morale meter pip, Hero Battles made progress to discourage overly defensive stationary builds. Unfortunately, new degenerative strategies are poping up.

A recent strategy I've seen is to have 4 running tanks, most usually Ranger or Dervish or Warrior primaries with Monk or Assassin secondarys. The objective is to control your heros so they are either on a node capping, or running away from the enemy with heavy defensive skills and speed buffs, wasting their time. If the event of a snare, flag that hero to right where he is and he's start tanking. Due to the increased speed of the morale boost cap, if that one character can stall for more than 15 seconds, his death is worth it. It's very micro-management intensive, but it's also effective and degenerative. No fighting is involved. Snares and whatnot is reasonably effective, and on occasion, the AI slips up, but an AI build intended to run fast and keep itself alive can be pesky to take down fast enough to move on to the next target. The degerative metagame has changed from stationary defensive to mobile defensive.

This stems from the design issue that one person on a cap point captures that point almost as fast as four people. That is, you can cap a shrine with one person in 12 seconds, or you can cap a shrine with 4 people in about 9 seconds. Now that shrine caps are more valuable to winning, they should require a worthwhile investment.

I propose one of two changes:

1) Increase the amount of time it takes for a lone person to cap a cap point so that it drastically reduced the time spent with the number of people present. That is, change the capping times for 1, 2, 3, and 4 pips from (12, 11, 10, 9) to something closer to (15, 12, 9, 6)

or

2) Require capture points to have two people on the same team on that point to start capturing it. This means that if there is a 2 on 1 fight at a shrine, the team with 2 will still start capturing but with only one pip at current speeds.

The best way to gain points should always be fighting head on. If these changes are made, solo cappers will be less relied on, and builds focusing on combat and teamwork will shine.

Kool Pajamas · Mar 09, 2007, 07:46 AM // 07:46

They should just take out the shrines and make it like TA but with heroes. I think thats what many wanted in the first place. Single team AB with heroes (which is what this is pretty much) is boring.

Not A Fifty Five · Apr 07, 2007, 01:33 AM // 01:33

yeah its pretty pathetic. My current build is 1 runner tank (me) and 3 running tanks with a "charge".

TBH I think they need to dump all shrines except the center one.

Crimso · Apr 07, 2007, 10:32 AM // 10:32

I think that all of the shrines should not make morale or that the morale should be changed(e.g everytime your morale bar goes to full all of your skills get recharged and you gain some health and energy).

Not A Fifty Five · Apr 07, 2007, 10:55 AM // 10:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kool Pajamas

They should just take out the shrines and make it like TA but with heroes. I think thats what many wanted in the first place. Single team AB with heroes (which is what this is pretty much) is boring.

heh, yeah I think everyone wants this. Good luck getting anet to abandon the shrines they worked on tho >.>

having a single shrine on each map tho I think is good because it prevents one side from just running in circles for 20 minutes (This actually happened in ra once lol. The other group made like 3 minute long run and heal laps around the court).

Crimso · Apr 07, 2007, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not A Fifty Five

heh, yeah I think everyone wants this. Good luck getting anet to abandon the shrines they worked on tho >.>

having a single shrine on each map tho I think is good because it prevents one side from just running in circles for 20 minutes (This actually happened in ra once lol. The other group made like 3 minute long run and heal laps around the court).

I don't think there should just be one shrine only or it will end up like ot was before, groups camping the only shrine with builds like 2 prot monks and 2 spirit spammers.

Not A Fifty Five · Apr 09, 2007, 12:58 AM // 00:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crimso

I don't think there should just be one shrine only or it will end up like ot was before, groups camping the only shrine with builds like 2 prot monks and 2 spirit spammers.

Heh yeah, tho in "high level Hero battles" I'm sure those defensive builds will not last forever. The other possibility is making the center shrine's effect extremely powerful like "victory or death" for all in range rather than a piddly "to the pain!". Uber defensive builds cannot survive VoD.

Or, as many suggest, morale has no effect on score. It just gives.. well.. gee what could it give.. a morale boost? O.O

mafia cyborg · Apr 09, 2007, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Quote:

REMOVE SHRINES

SIGNED ,SEALED AND SENT TO ANET FOR APPROVAL.
honestly to avoid campin they could just make it so that if u dindt move to the center to fight u would suffer degen. the safety area (reletively large) would be in the middle where u have to go and engage the opponent.....after 20 minutes with noone winning...its a DRAW! (or even better scissor/paper game!)

Not A Fifty Five · Apr 09, 2007, 12:00 PM // 12:00

Okay I ran this build and got 3 wins in a row against decent rated people.

Monk/a (me)

ZB
RoF
Mending touch
Feigned neutrality
Dark escape
Dash
Prot spirit
CoP

Wammo (avoid combat) x2

Healing hands
Sprint
Enraging charge
signet of stamina
endure pain (Shift clicked)
healing breeze
mending touch
res sig

D/mo (avoid combat)

Avatar of balth
faithful intervention
watchful intervention
RoF
Shield of absorb
mending touch
spirit bond
res sig

this is embarrassing >.> So much for HvH proving individual skill.

make that 4 wins. and this is not even an optimal 4 running tank build, I pulled it outta my ass

Not A Fifty Five · Apr 10, 2007, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Bump

with over like 40,000 new hero battlers I'm surprised this has so little negative/positive feedback

master_of_puppets · Apr 12, 2007, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Shrines suck and so do the builds people run. I think they should decrease the morale gain from all shrines, including the center, and nerf all the effects, lower the NPC level, siege does less damage or less often, lower health gain to half and stuff like that. Also ban certain skills or combinations of skills from hero battles, Im not joking. Dont allow things like 4 tanks ban things that take advantage of bad AI like SV etc, and stupid tanking skills like stoneflesh aura, in a 4-person team theres no room for enchant removal.